Hacking 2e: Saving Throws – Part 2

In Part 1, I looked at issues with the current 2e saving throw ruleset. This time, I’ll be desecrating a beloved game mechanic to ‘fix’ those issues. I hold no deep affection or nostalgia for the original construction of these saving throws, but I absolutely adore the concept of saving against a threat over the modern design of saving with an ability. The following is an attempt to preserve that feel, but in a way that makes sense to me and that serves the game I seek to build from 2e’s design. 

 

1. Saving Throw Groupings and Domains

Abilities should modify static saving throw numbers, not edge cases. However, we have few options on the table that match the theme of Dexterity and Wisdom. The 2e PHB does state that Breath Weapon can be used in situations “where a combination of physical stamina and Dexterity are critical factors in survival,” but as shown in the previous post, this save is used far more conservatively than the situations suggested by Dexterity’s ability bonus. Wisdom could be edited to provide its adjustment to Spell saves specifically, as in Basic, but now we’ve overpowered the bonus and removed its unique flavor.

My best solution is to rename Breath Weapon to something more wide-ranging while expanding its domain, and to create a new mind-based save for Wisdom to affect. Since Spell completely dominates the saves, I will split the Spell save in two: one save can cover any magical effect, and the other can be our mental effect save. This will also serve to lessen Spell’s dominance.

I do not want six saves (five is a fine number) so I need a sacrificial lamb. I’m going to recommend Rod, Staff, Wand. It’s barely used outside of literal magical implements, its alternative uses are generally nonsensical, and its listed values are only one number off from Spell saves. With its level of underutilization and lack of focus, and with only a 5% difference in the chance of success compared to a very similar save, it’s getting merged into Spell saves.

While I’m adding and removing saves, let’s divorce Paralyzation from Poison and Death Magic. It’s doing nothing except boosting this save’s share of the pie and it barely connects thematically. Let’s take a cue from Basic and shove it back with Petrification.

 

2. Saving Throw Names

We now have five saves, but we’re still living with the old names and their implicit domains. Let’s go through each one and find some new titles and definitions.

With Paralyzation out of PPDM, we’re just dealing with Poison and Death Magic, which is already an improvement. I think we can just take a page from other OSR games and simplify this to just Death.

Petrification and Polymorph, now with Paralyzation, are for effects that alter or manipulate the body in some form. I propose an expansion of this save’s domain to include effects such as blindness, enfeeblement, restraining magic, or other non-mental magical changes to the body which last more than a moment. If it’s a debuff that doesn’t come from a poison, or you can get rid of the effect with a Remove Curse spell, it should probably be saved against by this category. Therefore, I’ll title this Curse.

Breath Weapon is already being used as a makeshift Reflex check; we could even call it Reflex, but then it would break the convention of being named after the thing you save against, rather than what you save with. I’ll title this one Danger, and have it encompass all breath attacks, sprung traps, falling rocks, and the like.

Spell being broken into two parts means that I need to build a new save from scratch to encompass mental attacks, including enchantments and illusions. Calling it Will is the most straightforward, but that has the same issue as Reflex. Instead, I’m going with Charm. It evokes an old flavor while making sense as a category title for these types of effects.

The other half of Spell could just stay Spell, but I think we’ve beaten the save so badly that it deserves a new name. I’m partial to calling this Magic, to highlight that it’s meant to avoid any magical attack or effect not covered by one of the other saves, including magical weapons. As such, it also pulls duty as the fallback save: the one you use when nothing else fits.

The final point of order is to convert these saves to a roll-under mechanic, to match the mechanic for ability checks. Flip the chart and make both your proactive and reactive checks adjudicate in the same manner. It would also make the values much easier to read, as they would be comparable to ability scores, and thereby give players easier insight into their chances.

 

3. Saving Throw Values

We have our saves and our mechanic for adjudication. The only thing left to do is figure out where the numbers go. In this text, I’ve suggested some assumptions about how the classes interact with the saves. My assumptions, in full, are as follows:

Priest	Hearty and divinely protected. Resilient against death and charms. Weak against general magic.
Rogue	Escape artist and jack of all trades. Resilient against danger. Weak against death and charms.
Warrior	Champion through experience. Weak against most effects, but eventually resilient against everything.
Wizard	Squishy student of the arcane. Resilient against general magic and magic-adjacent effects (charms and curses). Weak against danger and death.

 

With those guidelines, these are my numbers:

Priest	Danger	Death	Magic	Charm	Curse
1 - 3	6	11	5	8	7
4 - 6	7	12	6	9	8
7 - 9	9	14	7	11	9
10 - 12	10	15	9	12	10
13 - 15	11	16	10	13	12
16 - 18	12	17	11	14	13
19+	14	19	13	16	15

 

Rogue	Danger	Death	Magic	Charm	Curse
1 - 4	9	7	6	5	8
5 - 8	11	9	8	7	10
9 - 12	13	10	10	9	11
13 - 16	14	11	12	11	12
17 - 20	16	12	14	12	13
21+	18	13	16	14	14

 

Warrior	Danger	Death	Magic	Charm	Curse
1 - 2	5	7	4	3	5
3 - 4	6	8	5	4	6
5 - 6	8	10	7	5	7
7 - 8	9	11	8	7	8
9 - 10	10	13	10	8	9
11 - 12	12	14	11	10	11
13 - 14	13	16	13	12	13
15 - 16	15	17	14	13	15
17+	17	18	15	14	16

 

Wizard	Danger	Death	Magic	Charm	Curse
1 - 5	5	6	10	7	9
6 - 10	6	7	12	9	11
11 - 15	7	9	14	12	13
16 - 20	8	10	16	13	14
21+	10	12	18	15	16

 

 

So what’s changed?

Danger (formerly Breath Weapon) now has the rogue in dominant position until overtaken by warriors, though the warrior has been nerfed a bit to delay this. Wizards receive a massive nerf to highlight their frailty. Priests get a small buff.

I’ve left Death (with Poison baked in and Paralyzation ejected) mostly alone, aside from a small nerf for wizards and early level rogues. The existing values were already serving their purpose.

Magic (formerly Spell) gives the wizard a slight buff; they were already dominant but now they stay that way. Priests get a slight nerf.

Charm (split from Spell) is a creation from whole cloth. Here the priest is, and remains, top dog. Wizards are okay at it, but not as good as they are with Magic and Curse. This is the rogue’s worst save, though just a tick under their Magic saves. As with other saves, the warrior starts badly (and here, worse than any other of their saves) but ends better than anyone but the priest, though it remains their worst save.

Curse (formerly Petrification and Polymorph) sees a slight nerf for warriors (though that class still comes out on top in the end), priests, and (again) early level rogues.

You may notice that one thing I did not change is how often the classes increase their values (every 2 levels for warriors, every 3 for priests, 4 for rogues, and 5 for wizards). I saw no immediate reason to alter this progression. It has the benefit of keeping progression a bit different between classes, but not much else. If needs require, it’s not something we need to keep; if there’s a good reason to break this progression convention, there’s nothing stopping one from doing so.

 

Final Assessment

I think this will work for what I’m attempting. The new categories clarify the saves and gives them niches that match to both abilities and each class’s strengths and weaknesses. The new system matches the mechanics of these saves to other similar mechanics. It preserves the weirdness of AD&D saves while discarding the baggage of the wargame. Finally, it gives each save something closer to parity in its frequency of use; when assigning these new saves to those used in the core books and adventures used in Part 1, we get:

Type	Count	%
Charm	62	26%
Curse	46	19%
Danger	37	16%
Death	52	22%
Magic	39	17%

 

Not bad.

The downside to this approach is that it breaks compatibility, though only slightly. Classic saves in adventures and other original material can still match to these altered saves, but it will require a decision by the DM as to which saves match to which. With the chosen saves, this should hopefully be a fairly easy call – I did so myself in the table above. Still, a note will be required in any finished game that both acknowledges this and provides guidance to make such decisions.

At this point, I’ve got Abilities and Saving Throws, and I’ve made some massive changes. Next time, I’ll expound a bit on my design philosophy for all these changes and what this is all about anyway.